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Post by euanzooom on Sept 11, 2006 12:01:46 GMT
Thought so, Hansen makes top 15 for me anyway.
Glad you'll be on - in depth wrestling chat it is later on then.
The kind of chat that is too rare around here recently!
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Post by OfLegend on Sept 11, 2006 12:07:12 GMT
I hoped to provoke some serious discussion with this topic, perhaps even inspiring people to come up with their own lists.
Hansen doesn't make the top 20 for me yet. Are there any of his top matches you could point me in the direction of?
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Post by tequillin on Sept 11, 2006 12:29:00 GMT
So far from what I've seen of Hansen, I wouldn't put him near my top 15.
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Post by euanzooom on Sept 11, 2006 12:47:12 GMT
Anything against Vader.
Any of his tags and singles from early to late 80s in Jpan is immense.Try.......
Stan Hansen/Terry Gordy vs. Genichiro Tenryu/Toshiaki Kawada (12/16/88)
Stan Hansen/Bruiser Brody vs. Jumbo Tsuruta/Genichiro Tenryu (12/12/83)
Stan Hansen vs. Mitsuhara Misawa (4/17/92):
Off the top of my head.
I'll get more into this when I get home.
I think we should start discussion threads, divided up into era's and styles.
e.g Lucha discussion thread
North American Heavyweight discussion thread
Juniorweight discussion thread
Japanese Junior and Heavy discussion threads etc etc.What do you think?
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Post by OfLegend on Sept 11, 2006 12:48:36 GMT
I like him in the same way I like Jerry Lawler and The Rock, which may seem like weird comparisons, but hear me out. He was superbly entertaining without sacrificing the match quality, because he worked through his gimmick better than pretty much anyone else could. What distances him from Lawler and Rock is his unflinching realism: he was an out of control redneck who would just as soon set out to cause extreme damage to someone as pin them. Basically, he did what Joe does, only he did it first and better.
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Post by OfLegend on Sept 11, 2006 12:56:22 GMT
I'm a huge fan of those matches. The one where he knocked out his eye is well remembered, but they had better contests that I've seen, I think I've seen Misawa from '92. He sold amazingly in that one, which made the finish all the better. Well, there are positives and negatives to doing that for me. When does Eddie Guerrero stop being a luchador and become a junior heavyweight? And can he ever count as a North American heavyweight, considering the difference in styles? In addition, I want a comparison to be made with Liger and Michaels for some reason, because while I've got ol' HBK down as the number one US worker, I think I've been overrating him in the past when looking at a national scene. Then again, he has had so many MOTY and MOTYC, I find it impossible to place him outside of a top 10.
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Post by euanzooom on Sept 11, 2006 13:23:16 GMT
They wouldn't be rules to abide to as it were.
They would just be templates for going to if you wanted to discuss a certain wrestler. Wrestlers could crop up in more than one discussion thread. It just means that one thread isn't a complete mess with hundreds of wrestlers of varying types being namedropped all over the place!
Thats how I saw it anyway.If you want to compare Michaels and Andre the Giant in the Japan Juniors thread that would be pushing it a bit, but I see no problems.......
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Post by tequillin on Sept 11, 2006 13:24:13 GMT
Regarding Michaels, the main thing that bugs me and Euan's said this to me aswell, is his lack of work outside of a WWE ring. I've often thought of the comparisons between Liger and Michaels. Some guy actually made a webpage dedidcated to a fantasy match between them: members.tripod.com/griff_4/liger_michaels.htmlEuan I'm all for seperate topic discussions aswell as it would create clear and precise information, although I'd love to see all the different categories merge into one big debate in a clusterfuck so to speak within this thread once other peoples lists get underway. It could get interesting.
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Post by OfLegend on Sept 11, 2006 13:38:06 GMT
Okay, how about I create the following threads:
Puroresu Heavyweight discussion North American Heavyweight discussion Junior Heavweight discussion Lucha Libre discussion Cruiserweight discussion Worldwide (Puerto Rico, Great Britain etc.) discussion
...and link to them from the first post in this thread, which is already stickied?
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Post by tequillin on Sept 11, 2006 13:39:40 GMT
Sounds great. In the meantime, I'm off to watch more of Jumbo's earlier work aswell as some Hansen, Vader and some Misawa and Kobashi to keep me at an extreme high. I've been tied up with doing my top WWE TV matches list and I don't think it would be fair to post my list until about a week as it gives me chance to study certain workers more.
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Casper
Jobber
.............
Posts: 73
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Post by Casper on Sept 11, 2006 14:23:08 GMT
Clearly he should be in the top 50. No he shouldn't.
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Post by janedoe95 on Sept 11, 2006 18:24:33 GMT
I think that's pretty good list, Of. Obviously you put a lot of thought into it, and I don't really disagree with any of it. You've got great wrestling knowledge for someone your age. I finished a top 100 list of my own a few days ago. It comes after a lot of hard work and revamping(and some more match viewing). I should mention however, how awakened I became while compiling it to the fact of how much wrestling I still need to seek out before really putting together a real definitive list. Among much of which eludes me includes lucha, 70s puro and even alot of pre-80s American wrestling. Years from now I'll probably make a list that will have me ashamed of this one. Or maybe not, I don't know. But it'll probably look different. Nevertheless, I'll post my top 70 as it stands (as everything after that I'm not quite as confident about, and also features some workers for whom I need a better grasp of their body of work). Oh, and there's been some notable changes on my top 20 from the one I posted in the thread of doom, just fwiw(people who remember the thread will know what I mean by calling it that.). 1 Mitsuharu Misawa 2 Jumbo Tsuruta 3 Dynamite Kid 4 Jushin Liger 5 Kenta Kobashi 6 Eddie Guerrero 7 Chris Benoit 8 Ricky Steamboat 9 Shawn Michaels 10 Toshiaki Kawada 11 Barry Windham 12 Bret Hart 13 Ric Flair 14 Akira Hokuto 15 Genichiro Tenryu 16 Terry Funk 17 Satoru Sayama 18 Harley Race 19 Shinjiro Otani 20 Randy Savage 21 Akira Taue 22 Owen Hart 23 Manami Toyota 24 Jun Akiyama 25 Curt Hennig 26 Ultimo Dragon 27 Jaguar Yokota 28 Tatsumi Fujinami 29 Keiji Mutoh 30 Shinya Hashimoto 31 Stan Hansen 32 Rey Misterio 33 Aja Kong 34 Masahiro Chono 35 Steve Austin 36 Devil Masami 37 William Regal 38 Vader 39 Ted Dibiase 40 Bob Backlund 41 Bull Nakano 42 Steve Williams 43 Akira Maeda 44 Dean Malenko 45 Great Sasuke 46 Terry Gordy 47 Kyoko Inoue 48 Arn Anderson 49 Davey Boy Smith 50 Tully Blanchard 51 Rick Rude 52 Kurt Angle 53 Taka Michinoku 54 Lioness Asuka 55 Fit Finlay 56 Chigusa Nagayo 57 Hiroshi Hase 58 Satoshi Kojima 59 Toshiyo Yamada 60 Yuji Nagata 61 Chris Jericho 62 Mick Foley 63 Brian Pillman 64 Bobby Eaton 65 HHH 66 Marty Jannetty 67 The Rock 68 Koji Kanemoto 69 Juventud Guerrera 70 Masanobu Fuchi I look forward to the lists of other well wrestling versed AWTers. --List slighty modified, 9/16
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Post by OfLegend on Sept 11, 2006 19:09:30 GMT
Thanks, Jane. Yours and mine aren't a million miles away by the looks of things.
As for lacking in pre-80s North American stuff, I'm afraid I can't help you out there. However, I used to get classic stuff occasionally from a friend of mine who was an encyclopedia, as well as the odd TV programme on some of the low budget digital channels and rarely a YouTube match, and I can tell you two things: 1) the 70s standard was high in the NWA with guys like the Funks, Race and Brisco running around, and 2) from what I've seen, most of the pre-70s work is very difficult to assess from a modern standpoint. I mean, if you were to put Bruno Sammartino up against John Cena today, it would be chain gang boy doing most of the wrestling. And if you go back further, a lot of wrestling was almost unrecognisable to what we watch. Gorgeous George was one of the top draws anywhere and an accomplished amateur wrestler, and yet some of his matches would be thirty second losses where he'd job to something resembling a hip toss and a lateral press, just because it was what the crowd wanted to see. Lou Thesz makes my list because, aside from being probably the top worker ever in what used to define being a top worker (legitimate shooting ability was at times the main criteria, along with mat wrestling and chain locks), he wrestled very modern matches to a high standard in his 50s, carrying the likes of Inoki. He adapted and proved it his skill, but there are very few pre 1970s guys I can likewise assess with a modern sensibility, and if I was going to call it with more versatility by fully taking the needs of the era into consideration, I'd have to have Frank Gotch in my top five. He probably couldn't work a lick, but he could kick the shit out of anyone back before wrestling was fixed. However, Gotch would probably get owned by a wrestler like Chuck Liddell, so I have to draw the line way before I start including people on the strength of their shoot work.
That was a very long winded way of saying "you're not missing out on that much", but there you go.
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Post by tequillin on Sept 11, 2006 23:54:40 GMT
Do you guys think we should set a rough deadline for the lists? I think it could be a big project for AWT and a great one that's educational and get's as many involved as possible.
I hope more than just a handful of us participate.
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Post by Andy_3:16 on Sept 11, 2006 23:58:37 GMT
Do you guys think we should set a rough deadline for the lists? I think it could be a big project for AWT and a great one that's educational and get's as many involved as possible. I hope more than just a handful of us participate. I'm participating. Not sure about the deadline, but I'll think about it.
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Post by tequillin on Sept 12, 2006 0:00:34 GMT
It was just a thought. I don't care if there isn't a deadline really.
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Post by euanzooom on Sept 12, 2006 0:03:03 GMT
You'll do as I tell you Andy!
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Post by Andy_3:16 on Sept 12, 2006 0:05:48 GMT
You'll do as I tell you Andy! Yes sir! Just thinking, Euan sir!
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Post by euanzooom on Sept 12, 2006 0:07:34 GMT
Haha! Cool, there won't be any set deadline that isn't feasible and there won't be any rules in place as such.
3 weeks odd is just a good time to aim for!
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Post by Andy_3:16 on Sept 12, 2006 0:19:12 GMT
3 weeks shouldn't be too bad.
By the way Euan, are you going to add another match to your thread soon? Because I really want to see some excellent matches. I'm about to watch the Fujinami match.
EDIT: I just found out that I had this match for awhile now! I never watched it! I must of got it months ago.
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