Bret Harts Book

[Mr-Brightside]

All it says is that in SEVEN years of prep, he wrote 1,026 pages.

How do you know how many pages any other wrestler wrote for their book before it was given the once over by the editors?

It's ridiculous for anyone[/b]. Particularly a professional athlete, who, in the grand scheme of things, is not very important. The number of pages does not equate to importance of the subject, obviously, but 1026 pages on one person's life, is self indulgence at it's apex, my friend. Ridiculous. Hence the reason it is getting chopped down.

Just because he penned 1,026 pages to be made into a book, that means he is an egotistical maniac?
[/qoute]
Who said anything about manic tendancies? I simply stated that it shows how wrapped up in himself he is. Many "celebrities" are this way inclined, it's no big deal.

To the general english public who love nothing more than Pints, Football, Tits, Big Brother, Nuts Magazine and Max Power he will mean nothing but he is a historical icon in the world of professional wrestling, which means more than anything to so many people all around the world.

I don't see what this has to do with 1026 pages of self indulgence? Autobiographies, regardless of how relevant they may or may not be, are as self indulgent as it gets. don't see how you can possibly argue this.

So one of the most famous and legendary wrestlers of the modern generation isn't allowed to pen an extremely large autobiogprahy.

No...

I didn't know there was a set number of pages allowed for certain people.

...me neither, but apprently, there are publishers/editors whom are looking to cut 526 pages of this out, there's obviously a reason behind this and I'm guessing irrelvance.

He is that relevant to some. Me included.

Key word being some. The primary purpose for autobiographies is to sellm, sure they are also put in place to shed light on various aspects of an intriguing person's life, but primarily their aim is to sell. 1026 pages on Bret Hart, a minority figure, will only sell to some, 500 pages will sell to more. You may not care, but people on the fence like myself, don't want to read 1026 pages of self indulgance.

I'd rather read a Bret Hart book than absolutely any autobiogprahy that's out on the shelf now. Katie Price, Nicole Richie, Peter Andre, Jodie Marsh, Paris Hilton etc etc? Fuck no.

You might (and so would I), millions

[/b] others wouldn't.

[tequillin]

brightside said:

It's ridiculous for anyone

[/b]. Particularly a professional athlete, who, in the grand scheme of things, is not very important. The number of pages does not equate to importance of the subject, obviously, but 1026 pages on one person's life, is self indulgence at it's apex, my friend. Ridiculous. Hence the reason it is getting chopped down.[/quote]

Personally I don't think it's ridiculous at all. There's no knowing how self indulgent Bret is being until the book has been read, so the labelling of him with egotistical and self indulgent is jumping to a conclusion just from the fact he has written 1,026 pages of his life that will in turn be created into a book ready to hit shelves. There's nothing at all wrong with being self-indulgent anyway now and again, especially when writing an autobiography in which your obviously going to praise yourself and show all the good things you've done/achieved.

Who said anything about manic tendancies? I simply stated that it shows how wrapped up in himself he is. Many "celebrities" are this way inclined, it's no big deal.

We haven't read Bret's book therefore we cannot judge. Nothing wrong with writing a book once your career is over and you've plenty of time handy, it's a perfectly reasonable chance to write your life story, something that you only get once and a chance for your life's work to be appreciated by others.


I don't see what this has to do with 1026 pages of self indulgence? Autobiographies, regardless of how relevant they may or may not be, are as self indulgent as it gets. don't see how you can possibly argue this.

No...

I cannot understand why you believe it's disallowed for him to write an autobiography, given everything he's done.

...me neither, but apprently, there are publishers/editors whom are looking to cut 526 pages of this out, there's obviously a reason behind this and I'm guessing irrelvance.

Obviously it would have to be shortened down, it would just be nice to read (for me anyway) what was left out. A lot of what he had penned would obviously be notes, rough stuff, things repeated and no flow or order. It would need to be gone over and put into a suitable book context.

Key word being some. The primary purpose for autobiographies is to sellm, sure they are also put in place to shed light on various aspects of an intriguing person's life, but primarily their aim is to sell. 1026 pages on Bret Hart, a minority figure, will only sell to some, 500 pages will sell to more. You may not care, but people on the fence like myself, don't want to read 1026 pages of self indulgance.

Fair enough that you wouldn't want to read that much about him. I understand less pages will sell more but that wasn't my primary concern, it was about the way you labelled him being self indulgent because of an autobiography like it's a bad thing.

You might (and so would I), millions

[/b] others wouldn't.[/quote]

Shows how simple minded and uncultured the majority of British people are. Not because they won't read a Bret Hart book, but due to them having people like Jordan, Jodie Marsh, Girls Aloud, Big Brother contestants and Hollywood twigs who've never done a hard day's work in their lives as role models/heroes to look upto. It makes me sick.

[Mr-Brightside]

Personally I don't think it's ridiculous at all. There's no knowing how self indulgent Bret is being until the book has been read, so the labelling of him with egotistical and self indulgent is jumping to a conclusion just from the fact he has written 1,026 pages of his life that will in turn be created into a book ready to hit shelves. There's nothing at all wrong with being self-indulgent anyway now and again, especially when writing an autobiography in which your obviously going to praise yourself and show all the good things you've done/achieved.

Autobiographies are as self indulgant as it gets, the fact that Hart has even wrote 1 page toward the book, never mind 1000, means that he has indulged, for the 7 years he's put toward this book, in himself. As I've staed previously, this is no big deal, as most people in his situation are wrapped up in themselves.

We haven't read Bret's book therefore we cannot judge. Nothing wrong with writing a book once your career is over and you've plenty of time handy, it's a perfectly reasonable chance to write your life story, something that you only get once and a chance for your life's work to be appreciated by others.

He penned his own biography, therefore we can. He's indulging ito his own life in order to educate people on how he lived his life. By penning your own life story you're already subject to bias, hoowever incidental that may be.

I cannot understand why you believe it's disallowed for him to write an autobiography, given everything he's done.

I didn't say he wasn't allowed to write an autobiography, I said, and his publishers are proving this fact for me, that he isn't allowed to write one that takes up 1000+ pages.

Fair enough that you wouldn't want to read that much about him. I understand less pages will sell more but that wasn't my primary concern, it was about the way you labelled him being self indulgent because of an autobiography like it's a bad thing.[/qoute]
Writing an autobiography is as self indulgant as it gets; writing over 1000 pages on oneself is even more indulgant. I was making a simple observation. I don't see how this can be argued?

Shows how simple minded and uncultured the majority of British people are. Not because they won't read a Bret Hart book, but due to them having people like Jordan, Jodie Marsh, Girls Aloud, Big Brother contestants and Hollywood twigs who've never done a hard day's work in their lives as role models/heroes to look upto. It makes me sick.

Agreed.

As the late Bill Hicks once said, "it's an insane world in which we live, but I'm proud to be a part of it."

[tequillin]

As I've staed previously, this is no big deal

You didn't say it wasn't a big deal in your first post, that's why I jumped in on the defensive. I agree, I don't find autobiographies a big deal either, just when millions of Jordan/Jodie Marsh-esque books are sold and are obviously having a massive effect upon the youth of today's society. Anybody who buys them and has these British tarts and talentless bores as role models are all going to hell and I'd happily give them a kick up the arse so they get there faster.

Writing an autobiography is as self indulgant as it gets; writing over 1000 pages on oneself is even more indulgant. I was making a simple observation. I don't see how this can be argued?

It initially appeared like you were having a stab at him for writing an autobiogprahy like writing one is a bad thing. It's a good thing for Bret. It's like the icing on the cake for his career and wrestling part of his life. 1,026 or 500 pages of self indulgence or not, it doesn't matter.

[euanzooom]

Your post is utterly ridiculous, made more so by the fact that you don't usually subscribe to jumping to far fetched conclusions based on a snippet of information from a random wrestling site.

It's ridiculous for anyone. Particularly a professional athlete, who, in the grand scheme of things, is not very important. The number of pages does not equate to importance of the subject, obviously, but 1026 pages on one person's life, is self indulgence at it's apex, my friend. Ridiculous. Hence the reason it is getting chopped down.

Of course it is getting chopped down and of course it is too long. This is it BEFORE it reached the editors and this is a process that occurs ALL the time whether it be film, music or literature. Just because you are privvy to information on how long it was in it's rawest form doesn't make it viable to band around these criticisms. If we all did that then we might as well label anything personal that was ever created in any entertainment medium the same.

You have no idea what they are cutting or in what form Hart wrote this in over SEVEN years. They may be keeping 70% of the stories but condensing it down because his writing style was prone to over elaboration or it may have ended up longer than ever intended because he wrote it in a stop start fashion over a number of years.

I don't see what this has to do with 1026 pages of self indulgence? Autobiographies, regardless of how relevant they may or may not be, are as self indulgent as it gets. don't see how you can possibly argue this.

Thats fine then. Just make sure that you refer to the writer of ANY autobiography as self indulgent and similarly vent negatively towards them.

No...

Yes...

...me neither, but apprently, there are publishers/editors whom are looking to cut 526 pages of this out, there's obviously a reason behind this and I'm guessing irrelvance.

The irony of this quote is that I don't understand how it is relevent.

Again I will say that this is common practise and one that was very similarly utilised in Flair's book, Bill Beaumont's book and Michael's book to name a few.

Key word being some. The primary purpose for autobiographies is to sellm, sure they are also put in place to shed light on various aspects of an intriguing person's life, but primarily their aim is to sell. 1026 pages on Bret Hart, a minority figure, will only sell to some, 500 pages will sell to more. You may not care, but people on the fence like myself, don't want to read 1026 pages of self indulgance.

Of course it is to sell and I'm sure Bret Hart agrees. However, I still don't understand what you are basing your 'self indulgence' attacks on when you've not bothered to apply them to anyone else.

Basically, this thread just fucking sucks beyond belief and I'm dissapointed in the hypocrisy on show and the ability to jump from A to Q, when under different circumstances it would be the very type of thing that you would lambast, especially if it was another wrestler.

[euanzooom]

Sorry to double post but I've now just seen that I'm so far behind in this thread that I've lost the will to live.

Fucking bastards.

[Nathan Versus]

I think you make a point, Euan. I didn’t really consider that 1,026 pages would be cut down, despite it being pretty obvious.

[Joker]

1,026 pages is too long for any book, I think.

[Silver Kyle]

Nah, the Wheel of Time series are usually over at least 900 pages... and there's like 11 books so far.

[Mr-Brightside]

euanzooom said:

Sorry to double post but I've now just seen that I'm so far behind in this thread that I've lost the will to live.

Fucking bastards.

Euan, honestly, I was bored. I was deliberately goading yourself and Teq (two of Hart's biggest supporters/sympathisers), because AWT is currently boring me out of my mind. As expected you both jumped in all guns blazing and defended Hart's self indulgence (which an autobiography is), admirably.

I'm a follower of trends, and currently Bret bashing is in, hence the mild[/b] criticism that the pair of you blew well[/b] out of proportion.

I still think 1026 is self indulgence to the nth degree, and I would say this about anyone[/b], it just so happens that the subject at hand, in this particular thread, was Bret Hart. So excuse me for aiming my criticism in his direction, I just didn't think leveling it toward Margret Thatcher, Kevin Federline or Dudley Moore was relevant.

Oh, and one more thing:

Yes...

No...

[tequillin]

Bret bashing is fucking lame, simply because the vast majority of it is towards either Owen's death, his stroke, how old he now looks or something ridiculous argument about Montreal that nobody truly understands.

If it's sensible criticism about his in-ring work, matches and style then fair enough, so be it. Anything else just leave behind.

[Mr-Brightside]

Bret bashing is fucking lame, simply because the vast majority of it is towards either Owen's death, his stroke, how old he now looks or something ridiculous argument about Montreal that nobody truly understands.

Hence the reason I chose not to touch on any of those subjects.

[tequillin]

I wasn't directing specifically at you. I was targeting Bret bashers in general.

The way you wrote your first post made it sound like Bret having some aspect of self indulgence due to writing a book was a negative thing. That was why I defended him. It's the icing on the cake for his wrestling career.

[OfLegend]

Bret's a very bashable guy. Why? Because he, as evidenced by this book, and his fans, as supported by this thread, both take the man too seriously.

Then again, I did just write a 4,000 word column on a different Stampede guy...

joker12341 said:

1,026 pages is too long for any book, I think.

Fuck off, Joker.

[tequillin]

I definately take Bret seriously. He was my childhood hero and still is. This book is a big thing for a huge fan like me and like I've already said it's like the icing on the cake to his career.

I think everybody is bashable to some extent but besides the lame areas of bashing I mentioned further up, I see no reason to bash him unless it's true and sensible criticism about his work. He's writing an autobiography, so what? The long list of wrestlers who have just got longer. It's a great achievement being able to write a succesful book that hordes of people want to read.

Any chance you would let me read that column sometime Of? I'd be very interested. Who's the subject?

[OfLegend]

Great achievement? It's Bret Hart. Whether it's a shite book or not, hordes of people would want to read it, basically because he was pushed and then screwed. I hope some of the royalties go to Vince, Triple H and Shawn, because I'm sure The Big V must have copyrighted the Montreal Screwjob at some point. He was proud enough of it.

No doubt it will be a fascinating read, but calling it egotistical isn't that far fetched. Yeah, the guy has a lot to tell from his point of view... but that's why he wasted pages bashing Ric Flair on his website.

The column should be up on OWW in the next few days.

[Mr-Brightside]

The way you wrote your first post made it sound like Bret having some aspect of self indulgence due to writing a book was a negative thing.

Self indulgence is self indulgence, depending on who your talking it can be a good thing or a bad thing, I personally, couldn't care less. However, I do agree with Of, in so much as he and his fans take his legacy far too seriously. Yourself and Euan have confirmed that further still.

It's the icing on the cake for his wrestling career.

I always thought that was Montreal?

(See how I jest?).

[tequillin]

I can be defensive but I don't go over the top. I'm a loyal fan who praises his work, it's great that he has fans who appreciate his legacy and what he did for wrestling.

I don't consider myself a fanatic who is hell bent on telling everybody that he's the best wrestler ever.

Wrestling is my life, I have basically no other interests whatsoever so I do take things within the wrestling industry more serious than most.

[euanzooom]

To be honest, I've only posted on wrestling on the internet since I joined IMDB and I've been raised on a diet of watching Jane and yourself fiercely defend Shawn, and Derek fiercely defend HHH, so it's the only way I know how!

[Mr-Brightside]

euanzooom said:

To be honest, I've only posted on wrestling on the internet since I joined IMDB and I've been raised on a diet of watching Jane and yourself fiercely defend Shawn, and Derek fiercely defend HHH, so it's the only way I know how!

Not a problem, bro. It's just that I kind of miss the IMDb days and the early AWT days, in which the animosity between posters was far more fierce than the placidity that seems to have currently consumed the board whole. The arguments are the best part of any forum and they're seemingly becoming more and more sparse, if there aren't any arguments then it's just an exchange of pleasantries, and false ones (for the most part), at that. We need the more controversial posters to bring humour back to the site, otherwise, it's just blase and quite frankly, boring.

P.S. So IMDb was your first venture into the world of internet wrestling posting too, huh? Yet more parallels, my friend.