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Post by Mr-Brightside on Feb 22, 2007 1:01:39 GMT
Doesen't really sound like you know what your talking about, Adzer.
Inter's closest rivals are Milan and Juventus. Juventus were relegated, so there's one title contender taken out of the equation. Inter, as a result of their relegation recruited about 4 or 4 players from a Juventus team that had won consecutive championships, immediately giving them championship winning experience and a better shout at the title than they'd had in years.
Milan had points reducted, basically taking them put of the title psychologically. They know they're not playing the title anymore so they're no longer a factor.
Fiorentina who came 4th were another team docked points, and lost players, hence no longer a factor.
Now imagine the psychological difference Inter would face had they been under sustained pressure from anyone of their normal rivals. There is no way in hell they have won 20 of their 23 games, that I can pretty much guarantee.
A depleted league and a stacked team means it's been a farce and an asterix should rightly be placed beside this meaningless victory.
Inter Milan are Italian football's longest running joke and the fact that they've not only acquired half of Juve's championship winning team, have almost all of the best players in Serie A and have been deprived of a proper title race, means Italy, their fans and their media, will ensure they remain that way.
Oh the hilarity...
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Post by Adzer on Feb 22, 2007 2:23:50 GMT
I don't know what i'm talking about? ok.....
1. Juventus did get relegated and they only brought it on themselves for it, Inter only signed Ibrahimovich and Viera from them, the majority went to Spain and Portugal, Fiorentina took 2 from Juve aswell, I dont know where you got 4 from?
2. Psychological issues are irrelavent, the team lost the points due to their own misgivings but I'm pretty certain that Deschamps wouldn't let them give up the chase for the title just because they had 8 points taken away, that was easy ground to make up
3. Fiorentina were never a threat to the title anyway, they havent won it since before you or I were born, A.S Roma would be more of a threat and are at the moment.
I'll give you that the season has been one sided and pretty dull but you cant take that away as Inter's fault.
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Post by Mr-Brightside on Feb 22, 2007 13:13:21 GMT
What has Juventus bringing it on themselves got to do with anything? My point was that if they, along with others, were there to apply concerted pressure on the Milanese team then there is no way in hell that Inter would have a record that reads played 23, won 20, drawn 3, lost 0. It's been like watching the Old Firm waltz off with their ridiculously farcical league title.
So I over-embellished on the amount of players they acquired from Juve, but the point still stands; Ibrahimovich and Vieria were key components to Juve's championship winning team and proven world class players that allowed Inter to immediately gain a foothold over their opponents and stack their roster like no other team before them. As the only team in Italy capable of affording them their was only ever one place they were going to end up.
So what? The players weren't aware of what management were doing behind the scenes? The players, regardless of how big or small, will have felt betrayed in some way and their mindset knocked due to the scandal hanging over them like an albatross. It's simple sports psychology.
When a disgrace such as this looms large, most of Italy baying for your blood and wanting your relegation and expulsion from Europe and your city rivals have been able to load their team with proven championship quality, psychological frailties will always come into play.
And why you've mentioned Deschamps, I have no idea.
What's that got to do with anything? Inter, before last season's farce hadn't won the title since 1989, despite being the most prolific spenders in Europe during that time period.
Considering that before Fiorentina's enforced relegation to Serie C2 in 2002 (due to their financial crisis) their record in the top flight, throughout the 90's, was not too disimilar to that of Roma and Inter, save for the one title these two clubs had mustered between them in nigh on 20 years, so I'd say, considering the team strength they had (have you seen how easily they've pulled back the negative points deficit they faced? They also, for the 2nd season running currently have Serie A's leading goalscorer in their team), the momentum they had after last season's 4th place finish and the culmination of finally gaining redemption after their seasons in the doldrums would have certainly made them a "threat" to the title.
Considering that Liverpool haven't really been a threat to the title since, realistically, 1991, would you, pre-season, have claimed they were never really a threat? Because that's the type of logic you've chose to use.
Please tell me where I blamed Inter for other's idiocy? The reprimands handed out were deserved and probably far too lenient, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Inter, on a level playing field - i.e when their main rivals are firmly in play, when they don't have a considerable financial edge over each and every team in Serie A, they don't have a head start and their closest rivals don't play in pink and or are Roma team that haven't been able to buy players for about 2 seasons now - wouldn't have won the title, or at least wouldn't have had so easy, hence, the asterix that will follow this title win forever.
I'm not the only person laughing at their plight; their own fans find the whole thing wholly amusing too, and that's because it is. For a club as grand and as rich in history as Inter it's pretty poor that it takes the relegation of Italy's most successful club, taking away last seasons closest rivals including their Milanese rivals and considerable financial clout (they're basically the Chelsea of Serie A, infactm they're much, much worse considering just how weak their league is), to do the job.
Those who choose not to see this are surely blind.
If you still can't see, Adzer, let me put it like this:
Man Utd win this season's title only to find themselves embroiled in match fixing allegations along with Liverpool and Arsenal. Man Utd, as league winners and primary perps are relegated to the championship, Liverpool and Arsenal remain in the premiership but are docked points for the start of the new season as well as losing a few players of their own.
Chelsea, having avoided all of this and all ready being, by far, the most financially powerful team in the country as well as having a stacked team, acquire Wayne Rooney and Paul Scholes to bolseter their team, whilst also bringing in a striker of similar quality to Hernan Crespo.
Meanwhile, with they main contenders more or less taken out of the equation, Tottenham (LOL), Reading(LOL) and Newcastle (LOL) emerge as their "closest" rivals.
How close do you think these teams would be to Chelsea in this instance? Would you, as a Man Utd fan, not discredit their claim as "genuine" title winners? Would you not think it appropriate to asterix their title win? Would you not laugh at the fact that it took the quashing of the main rivals to ensure them a title victory?
And if the Chelsea analogy doesn't work for you, swap them with Liverpool, as that is probably even closer to the Inter scenario and even funnier when you consider how long they've also went without a title.
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Post by euanzooom on Feb 22, 2007 16:14:57 GMT
As a long standing Inter fan I feel the need to jump to their defence somewhat.
They will not 'remain' a running joke by demolishing all that has been put infront of them, albeit 'all' being weakened. What would have been (or will be) a joke is if they somehow manage to not win the title this year. However, it would appear that they are currently doing as good as they possibly can be in this situation so full marks to them.
I agree, however, with an even playing field (ie. without the certain favourable ref choices, match fixing etc that had slyly made AC and Juventus look like professonal title winning machines and had made Inter look like they had no 'bottle'.), I firmly believe that Inter would be winning the title this year and not for the first time since 1989 either.
Inter have consistently finished higher in the league in the past 15 years,apart from one or two seasons, and have still won domestic trophies and the UEFA Cup. In addition, there is at least TWO years, where I believe that Inter would have had the Scudetto sewn up had it not been for a string of dubious decisions given against then, whilst at the same time, more decisions that benefitted AC and Juventus. The stonewall penalty that was waved away after a blatent foul on Ronaldo in Inter and Juventus' title decider ( I forget which year but will find out) is but one incident that springs to mind when reading all the allegations that AC and Juventus were found guilty of.
This is hardly a bad thing. Roma have a superb team and one that has had time to gel without a constant revolving door of players coming in and out. In the likes of Chivu, Mexes, De Rossi, Mancini, Totti, Pizarro they have class combined with great up and coming talent such as Aquilani and they have been able to create a more cohesive unit because of their relative quietness on the market.
This one will be won on the field and will be deserved for a side that has been wrongly perceived as 'bottlers' due to the evil machinations of others. When 'fixing' their way to titles AC and Juventus naturally made Inter seem like a joke that couldn't handle pressure. The irony is that, with the exception of one year, Inter were pretty much the only team strong enough to take them to the wire before being maneouvred out by higher powers at work.
Their last day loss of the title to Juventus a few years back is one good example.(excuse me for not remembering dates Brighty, I don't know a good source for stuff like that on the internet)NOTE.This is a different season to penalty incident mentioned earlier.
Bastard.
I completely believe that if it had been an even playing field Inter would have had two definate Scudettos within the past ten years.
I'm not really interested in your conversation with Adzer, however, I feel the need to defend them. For years they were perceived as 'bottlers' and delusional, paranoid freaks. Whilst other accusations of stupid buying and silly selling are completely true (they had Nesta, Cannavaro and Pirlo all on their books within a fairly short space of time and now have none of them which pisses me off to this day!), their paranoia over repeated 'bad luck' and plainly 'wrong' decisions was proved to be very much wise.
They were like a spy in the Cold War constantly having to check over his shoulder, thus causing his attentions to be diverted, whilst simultaneously being accused of being mad. A terrible situation and one that created their reputation.
Now, they are playing free of these hindrances and whilst the league is easy this year, I firmly believe that Inter will prove over the next 5 years what they truly are about.
EDIT - I didn't even see your post on the previous page Brighty!
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Post by Mr-Brightside on Feb 22, 2007 17:13:11 GMT
That's my point, though. The joke comes from it taking a national scandal to finally guarantee them a league title. I mean Roma managed to break the resistance in 2000/2001, what the feck has been Inter's problem? I'll tell you what it is; they're a joke. All style and very little substance. A decent cup team, who, on their day are as good as anybody, but over the course of a 34 match season, lack the consistency, the balls and or the quality to do anything. In other words, a joke.
Again I point to Roma, who in 2001, managed to break the monopoly. What the feck has been Inter's problem? They've spent ridiculous amounts of money in attempts to buy themselves titles and, until this season (LOL), it simply hasn'e worked.
THE. BIGGEST. UNDERACHIEVERS. IN. EUROPEAN. FOOTBALL.
Correct. My point, however, was more of a round about one, hence, the reason I stated their records were "similar," not identical, and only a couple of placings here and there have often seperated the teams.
The Ronaldo incident was 1997/1998, and I believe that Juve went straight up the other end of the field and Alex Del Piero duly scored the only goal of the game.
I remeber it vivdly and yes, it was a penalty, however, Juve went on to win the title by 5-6 points in the end, were, at that time, Europe's premier team and one decision does not a whole season make.
Roma have been fortunate, as their head coach, Luciano Spalletti, is something of a miracle worker. He has somehow managed to succeed where others would surely have failed and has built something of a family at Roma due to his superb man-managing ability. Any other coach would surely have crashed and burned without the safety net that cash brings.
And placing 2nd, in Serie A's poorest division in a generation, is hardly something to be proud of.
I'm not saying they won't have earned it, as they can only beat what's put in front of them, but lets face it, no genuine football fan is going to take it all that seriously, and I've already spoke to many Italian fans and pundits alike, who've pretty much written this season off as something of a damp squid. Not Inter's fault, but petty indicative of their recent history.
2001/2002 and you can do nothing but laugh at how that turned out, quite frankly. One point ahead of Juve and needing a win at Lazio on the final day of the season, all they had to do when going 1-0 up was keep a clean sheet, something Hecter Coupe teams were renowned for. Now, Inter being Inter, just couldn't manage this and capitulated in the only way Inter know how, eventually being turned over by 4 goals to 2.
I found it hilarious how Inter fans turned on that one poor bastard (can't for the life of me remember his name), and subjected him to a ridiculous amount of abuse simply to hide their embarrassment at the fact that they should really have sewn the title up.
They're a joke. And you know it.
Tottenham are always good for a LOL. You know it.
I don't. I think they'd have found some other way to capitulate. It's in their nature. I mean, they can't even buy the league title well.
We'll see I suppose.
With Juve back next year and Milan, perhaps back to something like their best (hopefully for them, they'll stop buying so old), it may prove a lot more difficult next year. However, I fully expect them to defend their title for at least the next two years. Give it 3, 4 maybe even 5 before Serie A is back to a level playing field and then we'll see the real Inter stand up and, once again, take center stage.
Can't even remember what I wrote. Was it any good? I tend to go into autopilot when discussing the circus that is Inter Milan. They provide such outstanding material.
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Post by stevenuk1 on Mar 6, 2007 21:48:21 GMT
'Cos we all love Liverpool! On a high at the moment after knocking the current holder's out of the comp. Gutted we lost the match but I can take it since we still go through
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Post by Carl on Mar 6, 2007 21:57:04 GMT
I'm just hoping we join you. At the moment it doesn't look too likely.
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Post by stevenuk1 on Mar 6, 2007 22:03:27 GMT
I am sure Arsenal will come out attacking PSV, being at home as well helps alot on a team and with Henry fit to play he could help out big time with bringing a win to the Gunners.
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Post by Carl on Mar 6, 2007 22:15:53 GMT
Knowing how defensive PSV will be I can't see us getting 3. Therefore a goal for them will kill off any chance we have of going through. Henry being fit is a boost we just need to find the clinicial edge that has deserted us much to often in the past couple of seasons.
Congrats to Liverpool anyway. They played out their tactics to a tee and showed that Barcelona are a shadow of the team that dominated Spain and the CL last season.
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Post by stevenuk1 on Mar 6, 2007 22:31:07 GMT
Well how ever the match goes I am sure the Gunners will try everything to get the win.
As for Liverpool we had so many chance's to go a goal up maybe even two or three up within the first half hour. Hit the bar twise and had a couple of chance's saved of the line, I thought it was going to be another vs. Man Utd type were we play better than them but losing in the last moment's of the game.
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Post by stevenuk1 on Mar 7, 2007 12:37:37 GMT
LAST 8 Liverpool - Doakey Chelsea - Ace Valencia - stevenuk Roma - Next Level Final four place's will be chosen tonight in matchs between; AC Milan (mrkennedy) vs. Celtic (Pathollywood) (Agg:0-0) Man Utd (Nathan Versus) vs. Lille (born2beskinny) (Agg:1-0) Arsenal (Carl V4) vs. PSV (Donald $. Carlos) (Agg:0-1) Bayern Munich (Gary Groucutt) vs. Real Madrid (euanzooom) (Agg:2-3)
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Post by Adzer on Mar 7, 2007 23:08:41 GMT
Agg. First leg Second leg Celtic 0-1 Milan (aet) 0-0 / 0-1 PSV 2-1 Arsenal 1-0 / 1-1 Lille 0-2 Man. United 0-1 / 0-1 Real Madrid 4-4 Bayern (ag) 3-2 / 1-2
AC Milan, PSV, Man. United and Bayern Munich go through to the QF's
Next round sees any team can be drawn against another
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Post by stevenuk1 on Mar 8, 2007 9:27:46 GMT
Next round sees any team can be drawn against another That's why I can't wait for the next draw, I hope Man Utd get Chelsea but I can see it being Liverpool/Chelsea in the QF, Liverpool can still beat them but still I would rather not have to face them in the QF.
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Post by euanzooom on Mar 8, 2007 15:05:39 GMT
LOL.
PSV
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Post by Mr-Brightside on Mar 8, 2007 16:03:41 GMT
LOL.
Spurs entire history.
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Post by euanzooom on Mar 8, 2007 18:54:56 GMT
First English team to do the double.
'Laugh it up fuzzball'.
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Post by Mr-Brightside on Mar 8, 2007 22:01:06 GMT
Still living on that old chestnut, huh? Well I suppose you lot have to have something.
Spurs - 2 league titles in a 125 years history.
vs
Arsenal - 3 league titles in 6 years (1998-2004).
Spurs - 1 Double in 125 years
vs
Arsenal - 3 doubles in 35 years, the latter 2 coming in 6.
Spurs - Promoted from Div 2 as recent as 1978 (not even as champions)
vs
Arsenal - What's division 2?
LOL.
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