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Post by Mr-Brightside on May 4, 2006 12:53:21 GMT
I fucking love the Hart/Hart cage match. Sure it has some of the most illogical moments ever witnessed in pro wrestling, but lets remember this was 1994 and the era of kayfabe, during this period WWE cage matches were performed in this type of illogical manner. Personally I think Bret and Owen did a marvelous job of keeping the bout wrestling based, and extremely exciting. I loved how many near escapes there were in the match, and Owen's spot in which he dived full length across the ring to grab the ankle of the Hitman, was not only exciting, it was fooking hilarious. It was also rounded off with what I believe to be one of the best cage match finishes I've ever seen, it was executed well and made Owen look like a genuine contender to Bret and his title, awesome.
I love the bout, and I don't even have to change the context in how I view it to enjoy the bout, as to me, it holds up extremely well. I still rank it as my all time favorite WWE cage match, although Hardy/Edge and Edge/Angle (smackdown TV match, 2002), are beginning to run it pretty close.
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Post by tequillin on May 4, 2006 13:03:48 GMT
Don't get me wrong, I love the match but my point was that it is not worthy of 5 stars at all. I probably prefer the Breakdown cage match due to the entertainment and the rough manner it was carried out in along with the funny spots.
I love Owen/Bret cage match but with it being at a kayfabe high like you say, that is just a bit too much for me and comes across rather corny at times, something I believe a cage match to be the total opposite of. I genuinely believe though that the match really did an amazing job at making us percieve Owen as a worthy contender for the title. Anything Owen/Bret I'm always going to enjoy as they're my favourite workers along with Liger but this just doesn't seem to click with me all that well, despite some good mat wrestling.
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Post by Mr-Brightside on May 4, 2006 13:13:18 GMT
Yeah, you do have a point teq, and I can see why it may not sit well with some. However, I still firmly believe it was well worth it's 5 star rating, myself. I really love it.
My undying love for the bout, probably has a little to do with the sentimental and nostalgic value that the bout brings for me on a personal level, as this was during the peak of my love for Bret Hart the character who, in my eyes, could do no wrong. Some of those feelings probably still resonate.
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Post by tequillin on May 4, 2006 13:22:25 GMT
My undying love for the bout, probably has a little to do with the sentimental and nostalgic value that the bout brings for me on a personal level, as this was during the peak of my love for Bret Hart the character who, in my eyes, could do no wrong. Some of those feelings probably still resonate. I miss the days of Bret being top guy like nothing else. He can do no wrong in my eyes. My favourite and probably the best character in WWE history and I'd be happy to explain why to anybody who disagree's. I feel happier when I watch an old PPV with Bret and Owen on it. It takes me back and means so much to me personally.
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Post by Andy_3:16 on May 4, 2006 22:37:32 GMT
CM Punk and Ace Steel vs. BJ Whitmer and Dan Maff, ROH Chicago Street Fight
Very brutal and great match. Some great spots and great moves with the weapons. Weapons included a ladder, barbed wire, chairs (they did the old ECW chair-throwing thing), tables, and some more I can't think of. Whitmer did a brutal blade job, and his whole face was a crimson red. A very good match.
Rating: ***3/4
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Post by euanzooom on May 4, 2006 23:47:40 GMT
Without going into detail, the Hart v Hart cage match is ***** stars to me.
It also has one of the most enormous superplexes of all time!
Just watched Hart v Malenko.
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Post by Boricua on May 5, 2006 2:11:05 GMT
Hulk Hogan vs The Undertaker, Judgement Day 02
After watching the first Hell In A Cell to research for my match I'm writing for The Reckoning, I decided to revisit this legendary bomb. To its credit, I think I now change it from having a negative star rating to actually earning one star. The Undertaker tries to cover Hogan's weaknesses and work a good match, but Hogan singlehandedly ruins everything and shows just why I, even as a mark, hated his comeback. It's comically obvious that Taker has to work with him like you would some fragile relic. He applies the WORST half crab you'll ever see; it made Rock's sharpshooter look like it was done by Bret himself. There's also the infamous two-inch chokeslam. Horrendous match through and through. Interestingly enough, on his show Hulk actually admits that he stayed in the game too long. Must've been after he watched this match again.
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Post by euanzooom on May 5, 2006 2:39:39 GMT
Completely correct analysis, Boricua.
Shame Undertaker's brilliant heel run was marred by Hogan's fragility.
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Post by Mr-Brightside on May 5, 2006 2:43:13 GMT
Without going into detail, the Hart v Hart cage match is ***** stars to me. That's because it is a 5 star match, simple as. Remember, Euan, we're(I'm) cunts, so whatever we say, goes. That's just how it is.
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Post by euanzooom on May 5, 2006 2:45:01 GMT
As I previously said...
When it comes to match ratings there is one truth and that's my truth!
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Post by Mr-Brightside on May 5, 2006 2:48:24 GMT
Ex-fucking-actly! Luckily for you, I invariably agree too.
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Post by euanzooom on May 5, 2006 2:53:58 GMT
We'll just pretend Angle v Undertaker never happened!
Oh yeah, I randomly found out something interesting about that match I'll PM it to you.
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Post by Nathan Versus on May 8, 2006 11:16:15 GMT
Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (Triple Crown) (AJPW; 1997)
Fuck me, this match owns.
I’ve recently been compiling my top twenty matches, in preparation for a thread I’ll soon be starting which will aim at determining the twenty best wrestling matches of all time, according to members of this site.
I was quite surprised that only four or five WWE matches appear in my top twenty, but when you watch matches like this, and others from AJPW of the 1990’s, it isn’t hard to understand why…
This match is often overlooked in favour of matches that Misawa and Kobashi had in 1995 and 1999 and this isn't even considered a classic in the same way that so many other matches from Japan are. Nonetheless, it still pisses over just about everything I've seen in WWE over the last decade.
Misawa is the greatest wrestler I have ever seen. He is the master, who controls the ring in ways that very few people can. Almost everything he does, he does better than the next guy, from being the best storyteller to the best ring psychologist the world has ever seen. Pacing, timing, selling, execution, Misawa is the perfect wrestler or as close to perfect as possible.
This match is truly awesome from beginning to end. I really don’t want to spoil too much of it, but I seldom find myself sitting on the edge of my seat for an old match, even if I haven’t seen it before (which I hadn’t). Towards the end, which sees several near falls and submissions, I almost start shaking my head in disbelief that something done so poorly by so many in the US can be made to look like an art-form with such ease in Japan. This is pro-wrestling at it’s finest.
The match builds perfectly to an awesome finish, and both men make it feel like their life depends on the outcome. Kobashi plays the heel role, focussing throughout this match on Misawa’s arm. It’s simple, but Misawa can sell like nobody else (which goes well with Kobashi’s stiff style of working, which genuinely looks like he’s causing damage) and when Kobashi takes Misawa down in a crossface towards the end, the entire crowd is on their feet. When Misawa escapes, the crowd erupts. Seconds later, Kobashi takes him down in another crossface and Misawa struggles to reach the ropes…
The suspense is unreal and the crowd is truly electric.
Misawa lands the Tiger Driver ’91, but Kobashi kicks out (very few people did that)… Kobashi hits the Burning Lariat, but Misawa kicks out (very few people did that either)… It’s Kobashi’s stiff looking chops versus Misawa’s stiff looking elbow strikes… Two of the best workers ever to step into a wrestling ring, competing for the biggest prize in AJPW.
Classic.
*****/*****
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Post by janedoe95 on May 8, 2006 21:41:29 GMT
Is that 1/1997? Definitely my favorite AJPW singles match.
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Post by OfLegend on May 8, 2006 21:44:04 GMT
Not only are Misawa and Kobashi not the greatest Japanese workers ever, I am very skeptical they are even Japanese. I have not watched one single match involving either of them that involved a Geisha valet, rice throwing, the usage of salt as a weapon or even mist-spitting.
Nice try, Mits, but you can't fool us.
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Post by Nathan Versus on May 8, 2006 23:59:46 GMT
Is that 1/1997? Definitely my favorite AJPW singles match.
That's the one.
It's probably mine too. I watched the June 1994 Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada match beforehand (the one that so many people call "the greatest match ever") and I actually think Misawa/Kobashi from January 1997 was better.
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Post by Andy_3:16 on May 10, 2006 23:09:51 GMT
Sting vs. Rick Rude
This is the match where Rude had his career-ending back injury. Pretty good match, and Rude hitting his back on the steel looked sick.
Rating: ***
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Post by tequillin on May 10, 2006 23:17:10 GMT
Chris Benoit vs William Regal - NJPW 1995
Seeing that their Velocity and Pillman memorial matches are pretty similar, I was expecting the same here. How wrong I was.
A different match to the others but still relying on a tonne of chain wrestling. All played out very, very nicely. Everything is so neat in this match. It's not an exciting and astonishing match but it's content is purely wrestling, and thats why it's so good. Some sweet spots and an all round good match. Regal actually goes over here too.
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Post by euanzooom on May 11, 2006 16:22:38 GMT
Just watched........
Bret Hart v Lex Luger from '93. Thoroughly enjoyable affair and the end has a run in from Ramon leading to one of Hart's crazy dives onto a wrestler from out of nowhere.I love when he does that or anything similar like his random suicide dives through the ropes that he pulls out of the blue from time to time.
Bret v Perfect Boston Gardens. Awesome match, hard to rate though as the sync is 40 seconds out and the quality not great.
The early 90's is definitely my fave Bret period in terms of his actual wrestling due to his slightly quicker style and overall crispness.
Also, Bret v Rock from '97. I love ANY of the footage from '97 its my favourite year.
I'm basically enjoying re viewing Bret's lesser known matches and seeing a few for the first time and I'm actually loving it so much it's not true.I've got so many matches on my comp I need to get through.
Next is the two Michaels v Jannetty RAW matches I think!
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Post by Adzer on May 11, 2006 20:59:16 GMT
Just Watched........
Angle vs Jericho vs Benoit (WM 2000)
Great match featuring my 3 favourite wrestlers of the early 2000's, shorter match than expected considering there was 2 pinfalls to be decided, so the matches were rushed a little.
Angle using the belt was the only time a heelish thing was done otherwise it looked just like 3 faces in the match, but considering that all these 3 have always had great fan support whether as face or heel, that was probably the best way of doing it, not involving Angle in either of the pinfalls was a good idea too as it didnt do his character any harm.
My rating ***
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