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Post by Nathan Versus on Jul 16, 2006 14:54:33 GMT
What if a current WWE champion's contract expired, and he took the belt with him to NJPW? Inoki would polish it and send it back to Connecticut, recorded delivery. He would then be left scratching his head, baffled as to why Vince McMahon would dump the IWGP Championship in the trash if the roles were reversed.
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Post by OfLegend on Jul 16, 2006 15:03:07 GMT
Why would Vince do that?
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Post by Nathan Versus on Jul 16, 2006 15:36:51 GMT
When Inoki won the WWE Championship, in 1979, he threw the title away, which had never happened before and has never happened since. Understandably, this didn’t go down well with WWE management, which was then led by Vince McMahon, Sr. At the time, Vince McMahon, Jr. was being lined up to take control of the promotion when his father retired and, he too, was less than impressed that the promotion he was due to take control of was being shit on by a man that he once helped, which I’ll get to in a second. WWE are of the opinion that the title change never occurred, but it has more to do with Inoki’s snub than claims that the match wasn’t televised. The match aired on Japanese television and the WWE camera crew suggests it was also going to be aired in the United States. Vince McMahon, Jr. and Inoki co-promoted Inoki’s fight with Muhammad Ali in 1976, which was hugely successful (the fight, itself, was a joke, but it did draw a massive amount of public interest). The fight established Inoki as “The Man” in Japan and showed that Vince was a nifty, visionary promoter with the right credentials to take over from his father. The Inoki/Ali fight was bigger than anything that Vince, Sr. and WWE had ever done. It’s doubtful Inoki would’ve been as successful without the Ali fight and open to debate as to whether McMahon’s argument for taking control of WWE would have been as strong without such a big credit to his name. With Inoki and McMahon you have two men who really do owe a lot to one another. So when Inoki rejected the WWE Championship three years later, McMahon took it personally (this is the popular opinion in Japan). By 1983, WWE had a new man in charge and, by 1985, the relationship between WWE and NJPW was severed. When Brock Lesnar signed for NJPW last year, a lot of people thought it was a ploy by Vince McMahon to have Lesnar win the title, and throw it away, in some attempt at McMahon getting revenge. May or may not be any truth behind that, but McMahon seems to be a man who holds grudges and, thus far, Inoki has avoided any wrath for pissing him off. The opportunity to throw the IWGP Championship in the trash might be too much for him to ignore.
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Post by OfLegend on Jul 16, 2006 16:04:43 GMT
I'm not convinced. Vince does what he does on television either to get ratings or massage his ego. As his audience have probably never heard of New Japan, it wouldn't get them any more viewers and it would seem like a pointless exercise. The common reaction would be more like "What the hell?" than "Way to get revenge, Vince".
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Post by Nathan Versus on Jul 16, 2006 16:14:49 GMT
Oh yea, I totally agree. I don’t think he would do it on television or anything like that. It would discredit the title of a promotion that nobody has heard of, which translates to free advertisement.
But I don‘t think he would be eager to return the title. Most likely it would wind-up on the shelves in the apparently huge WWE library of footage and various other things, probably alongside the gimp masks that Demolition used to wear, whilst McMahon advises his secretary that he won’t be taking any phone calls from Tokyo.
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Post by OfLegend on Jul 16, 2006 16:21:10 GMT
I'd like to see that library. I bet even the blow up Katie Vick doll is in there.
But uh, and I could be wrong here, but don't wrestlers get to keep the physical major world championship belts even after they lose them, and a replica is made for the new champion anyway? Just that I saw a photograph of The Rock's study in his old house in Miami, and he had the WWE Championship and the Intercontinental Championship on his wall.
If that is the case, and Vince did ever get ahold of the IWGP Championship, I doubt it would be much trouble for Inoki to have a new one made, since nobody but a few people backstage would know of Vince's thievery.
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Post by Nathan Versus on Jul 16, 2006 17:13:34 GMT
Funny you should mention that, as I was just wondering the exact same thing about the Brock Lesnar situation with NJPW.
Either the belt is held at NJPW headquarters in Tokyo, rather than in Lesnar’s possession back in Minneapolis, or Lesnar has the title and NJPW intend to create a replica…
But when Flair arrived in WWE in 1991, with the WCW Championship, WCW introduced a brand new championship, rather than replicate the old title, whilst threatening WWE with legal action.
Not entirely sure how these things operate, or if there is actually a rule, but I have also seen a few instances of wrestlers with the titles on their wall or mantlepiece.
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Post by tequillin on Jul 16, 2006 17:18:59 GMT
I don't know an awful lot about this situation and sometimes find this kind of thing confusing, but after reading your posts is there an actual possibility somewhere in there that Lesnar/McMahon are in Cahoots to make NJPW look like chumps? Or am I on a skitz and being totally retarded?
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Post by Bill Covington on Jul 16, 2006 17:26:23 GMT
I don't think so Teq. It wouldn't be worth Vinces' time, and they are in no way a threat to Vinces fan base. I can however see Lesnar returning to WWE. I'm not saying it's certain, but Vince knows' a lot of people want to see Batista Vs. Lesnar, me being one of those people. And about the belts, I believe there is one for each of the major championships'. Replicas' are created for all of the wrestlers' while the originals are probably kept at WWE headquarters'. I believe the mentioned situation involving Flair was exasperated by WCW to get recognition.
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Post by stevenuk1 on Jul 16, 2006 17:26:53 GMT
I know that Chyna and Hunter both have replica IC titles on there walls, Chyna said it was a replica during Cribs episode i belive and Hunter said so in the WWE mag all on him that one time.
The only two people i know who have the orignal titles in there house are Rey and Kidman, They both have the Cruiserweight Tag Team Championship, I found that out when watching Reys documentry.
I'd love to know what does happen to the titles after the show is over tho.
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Post by tequillin on Jul 16, 2006 17:28:26 GMT
I find the possiblity of huge secretive screwjob type scenario's intriguing, especially in this industry. Haha, so I apologise if I am thought less of now for thinking such dog pap.
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Post by Joshua James on Jul 16, 2006 17:29:57 GMT
about the belts I am like 85% sure that they keep the same belt to give to everyone that wins, to keep the legacy of the belt alive... but Vince gives each superstar a replica of the belt, as too why the Rock has his. I read an interview somewhere with Shelton Benjamin and he said that he has take care of the IC Belt (when he had it) and make sure it didn't get damaged or lost. He also said that he was so proud of that accomplishment that he bought himself a replica of it to hang on his wall.
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Post by Bill Covington on Jul 16, 2006 17:32:49 GMT
I find the possiblity of huge secretive screwjob type scenario's intriguing, especially in this industry. Haha, so I apologise if I am thought less of now for thinking such dog pap. Never you big silly goose.
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Post by OfLegend on Jul 16, 2006 17:33:40 GMT
Yeah, I've heard about that. What I'm not sure of however is whether Flair appeared with the title on WWF television?
It may be a kayfabe issue. If Flair had just buggered off to the WWE as champion, leaving the belt behind him in the storylines, it's likely they would've just held a tournament for the title and let him keep his replica. However, if it was made public knowledge that Flair took the belt with him, WCW would've felt more pressed to create a brand new championship and threaten the WWF with legal action.
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Post by Nathan Versus on Jul 16, 2006 17:38:41 GMT
There is a small possibility that Lesnar and McMahon are in cahoots, but I find it highly unlikely.
It is known that when Inoki sold his share of NJPW to Yuke’s, WWE did make an undisclosed bid for the promotion. It was, of course, immediately dismissed.
Chances are that Lesnar didn’t want to drop the title and, upon realising that Japan pretty much invented the Montreal Screwjob type of double-cross, and has used it on more than one occasion, opted to stay at home rather than risk getting legitimately taken out.
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Post by Nathan Versus on Jul 16, 2006 17:41:49 GMT
I’m sure Bobby Heenan, in a backstage segment at Summerslam 1991, showed up at Hulk Hogan’s locker room, carrying the title, and challenging Hogan to a match against the real World Champion, on behalf of Flair.
What didn’t make sense is that Hogan turned him down, which was probably a way for WWE to make it seem like the WCW Championship was beneath Hogan. Unfortunately it looked more like Hogan was shitting himself at the prospect.
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Post by OfLegend on Jul 16, 2006 17:44:46 GMT
My theory is still intact!
Hogan's a douche, by the way. I know that angle wasn't his idea, but I haven't said that in a while.
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Post by Boricua on Jul 16, 2006 17:45:57 GMT
That would've been quite the sight, seeing Lesnar show up on Raw with the IWGP Title.
"Ju people, ju know who I am . . . but ju don't know why I'm here."
BTW Nathan, I've heard of a few swerves in Japan, but what are some of the really juicy ones?
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Post by OfLegend on Jul 16, 2006 17:53:47 GMT
I know of a minor one. Akira Maeda, Antonio Inoki's rival, was apparently screwed by Inoki. However, he deserved it: destermined to prove he was a better shoot wrestler than Satoru Sayama, Maeda began shoot kicking Sayama in the groin until Inoki came out and brought an end to the match.
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Post by Boricua on Jul 16, 2006 17:55:47 GMT
I know of a minor one. Akira Maeda, Antonio Inoki's rival, was apparently screwed by Inoki. However, he deserved it: destermined to prove he was a better shoot wrestler than Satoru Sayama, Maeda began shoot kicking Sayama in the groin until Inoki came out and brought an end to the match. Yeah, I've heard some pretty bad stuff about Maeda, including that incident with Andre.
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